Between Books - Walt's People Volume 13: Talking Disney with the Artists Who Knew Him

For a few years now I have had Dider Ghez's Walt's People series on my radar.  These oral history collections seemed like a good fit with my educational background.  So when Theme Park Press asked if I would be interested in reviewing the latest volume I immediately jumped on the the request.  But what I did not realize was that a simple book review was a intense journey into Disney's past.

Walt's People Volume 13: Talking Disney with the Artists Who Knew Him edited by Didier Ghez is over 550 pages of oral history.  The volume contains 27 separate interviews of former Disney employees in areas ranging from animation, live-action films and Imagineering.  There are plenty of voices that Disney fans would recognize from Tony Baxter, Roy E. Disney, Fess Parker, Blaine Gibson,  and Don Iwerks.  But the interviewers also introduce us to less familiar names like Becky Fallberg and Paul Kenworthy, who while perhaps not commonly known figures shed light into working at Disney in their interviews.  Ghez collects the interviews, and his collaborators who interviewed the subjects include well-known Disney historians such as John Canemaker, Michael Broggie, Dave Smith, and Paul F. Anderson.  Along with the interviews there are also two essays included.  The first on John Parr Miller is written by Canemaker, while the second on John Sibley was completed by Peter Docter.

Alright, let me put in my complaint!  I really want an index.  Yeah, that's it that's my one complaint.  That is a pretty weak criticism!   I get why it's not there, with over 550 pages of rich text that endeavor itself would be highly time consuming and add considerable length to this alright large book.  So I would love one to help ease the searching of the researcher in me.  But, I will pick up other volumes without one.  Because honestly, these pages are full!  

I expected to breeze through this book.  I will be honest, I was kind of cocky about it.  But instead it has taken me four weeks to complete the volume.  Quite simply, this is not a vacation book.  No this is a fact packed journey, actually journeys, into Disney's past.  And even the speech patterns and the vocabulary of the subjects become part of one's reading as you try to get to know these Disney artists in more depth.  In short these interviews are treasures and they should not be ran through, one needs to stroll.

One of the things I found interesting, and perhaps it was intentional, was reoccurring themes in the book.  So for example, early in the book labor relations at the studio and the 1941 animators strike continually resurfaced.  And with numerous animation staff discussing the incident, the reader can begin to exam it in other angles.  Another reoccurring theme that stood out to me was the True-Life Adventure film series.  A reader can walk away from Walt People Volume 13 after reading Roy E. Disney's, Kenworthy's and other interviews the process, time commitment and staging involved with capturing nature on film.  I found the Don Iwerks interview  extremely exciting, especially since the interviewer Michael Broggie's father was once Iwerks manager and mentor.  The interchange is fascinating since they share a common foundation of understanding.  And it is highly interesting to read an interview with the son of the man who drew Mickey Mouse.  

Walt's People Volume 13 confirmed for me this is a series I must complete. But I also know this is not a series to be trifled with.  These pages are jam packed with events and perspectives from the viewpoint of artists who lived them.  So as one would recommend that you don't rush to your favorite ride in the park you should not rush straight to Tony Baxter without visiting with his other colleagues and their stories also.  And as you research your favorite Disney topics, you should expect to look into these volumes to find new insights.  Walt's People Volume 13 is a must have in a Between Books library dedicated to Disney history!  

Review Copy Provide by Theme Park Press

Between Books - Walt's People: Volume 10 Talking Disney with the Artists who Knew Him

I honestly cannot say enough how awesome it is as a Disney history fan to have a series like Walt’s People. There are archives and people that I will never have access to in Betweenland. And as a bonus in the series’ 10th volume I feel like I am getting annotated notes to one of my favorite books.

Walt’s People: Volume 10 Talking Disney with the Artists who Knew Him edited by Didier Ghez collects the interviews used by biographer Bob Thomas in his writing of Walt Disney: An American Original. The book opens with an essay discussing Thomas’ book written by Jim Korkis. The essay discusses the quest for an official biography of Walt Disney and the attempts by other authors to fulfill the request. It also highlights the intellectual freedoms Thomas had. The first oral history is Ghez interviewing Thomas about his experiences with Walt Disney and writing the book. The majority of the rest of the volume consists of Thomas’ interviews which include a list of Disney legends including Lillian Disney, Roy O. Disney, Ub Iwerks, Ward Kimball, Frank Thomas, Roy E. Disney, Marc Davis, and so many more. Oh, and there is an interview with Walt Disney himself. Additional information includes an essay on Walt Disney’s secretaries which is an interesting read.

I really do feel like this volume is the annotated notes of Thomas’ Walt Disney: An American Original and Building a Company: Roy O. Disney and the Creation of an Entertainment Empire. There were several moments I thought to myself; hey I have heard this before. And in many cases it is because I have read some of the stories before in Thomas’ books and in their use by other historians and biographers afterwards. However, I really like seeing the original notes and contexts of the interviews that Thomas used. And now, I and others can use them for our own writings even if we never met any of these legends, many of which have passed away.

Walt’s People: Volume 10 Talking Disney with the Artists who Knew Him is likely my favorite volume of the series to date due to the connecting theme. I bought my copy as a Kindle book for under $5. And that may have been the best value of the year based simply on the number of notes in my copy.

Between Books - Walt's People Volume 1

As someone who loves Disney history, the Walt’s People series edited by Didier Ghez has often caught my eye.  And now with one volume in my rearview mirror I find myself wanting more of the oral histories where those who lived share their experiences with us.  And the fact that sadly many of these legends have passed away makes hearing directly from them even more exciting to the historian.

Walt’s People: Volume 1 Talking Disney with the Artists Who Knew Him is the original volume, recently reprinted by Theme Park Press.  As content goes, this volume kicked off the series right with interviews with Disney figures including Milt Kahl, John Hench, Ken Anderson, and John Hench (they are so big they share the cover).  The volume includes interviews with 10 Disney artists, with Hench and Davis being featured twice.  The interviews are standard question and answer with some editorial background to help orient the reader.  The volume covers both Disney’s early Hollywood years with interviews with figures like Rudolf Ising who had known Walt Disney in Kansas City.  Other’s like Harper Goff discuss both live-action and theme park projects.  And the legendary Marc Davis covers topics that include both the development of Snow White and Disneyland improvements, spanning multiple Walt Disney masterpieces.  

I have published a biographical profile of Marc Davis.  And I will admit I really wish I had this volume back when I wrote this.  This book, this series, is a researcher’s treasure chest.  To be able to hear directly from these individuals, even with their lapses of memory, is a delight.  It is fun hearing what they remember and the grudges they hold into their later years.  

For me the last interview with Joyce Carlson was honestly my favorite.  Her long career included animation, the World’s Fair and four Disney Parks as she truly became the queen of it’s a small world.  And her observations on Mary Blair, Rolly Crump and Davis are first person accounts of the three of them working and fighting together.  It did find it very insightful who won!  And Crump often paints himself as someone not always well liked by the older men of the studio.  Carlson shows us an audience that did enjoy his company, young ladies, which also helps explain why other men may have been resentful.  Additionally, she shows how friendly Walt Disney was with Crump with the ease he could slip into Crump’s projects and interests.

Walt’s People: Volume 1 Taking Disney with the Artists Who Knew Him edited by Didier Ghez is a great starting point to jump into this series.  It is under 200 pages and includes a large number of names Disney fans know, with an introduction to some that you may not be familiar with.  Currently this volume is only 99 cents for Kindle!  For a Disney history fan, there is no reason not to give this volume a try.   

Review Copy Provided by Theme Park Press

Between Books - Walt's People: Volume 14 Talking Disney with the Artists Who Knew Him

Sometimes you never know what gem you will find in a volume of Walt's People.  For me my most recent excitement was finding a connection to Disney and the end of the United States Army cavalry.  It is always surprising how a volume of Didier Ghez's edited collection reflects 20th century history and culture in unexpected ways be it the rise of modern media or the World War II home front.

Walt's People: Volume 14 Talking Disney the Artists Who Knew Him edited by Didier Ghez captures snapshots of Disney history from the early days of the studio to the development of Disneyland Paris.  The majority of chapters are oral history interviews with former Disney employees conducted by historians Dave Smith, Bob Thomas, Ghez, John Canemaker, Jim Korkis and more.  The interviews largely are arranged in chronological order.  Interview subjects that will catch the interest of most Disney fans include Alice Davis, Bill Justice, Joe Grant, and Lillian Disney.  But as always the collection also includes largely unknown names.  Along with the interviews are two essays, on Dick Kelsey and Eric Knight, and a collection of letters.  To close the book is additional reference material for those who want to look deeper into the subjects.

One should know that the majority of the book is interview transcripts, not a narrative.  For historians, as I keep saying, this makes these volumes fantastic resources since one can read the actual subjects account in their own words.  Yes at times the memory may have failed some or the interviewee may have remembered something incorrectly.  But the memory is as they recollect it.  For me because of my own interests the interviews that stood out to me were Lillian Disney and Admiral Joe Fowler.  The Disney interview conducted by Michael Broggie discusses Mrs. Disney's marriage to Walt Disney including their courtship.  Though for me what really stood out was the discussion of trains.  A reader discovers that she herself had her own connections to trains, though she largely did not participate in Walt Disney's passion for railroads.  But having Broggie who's father helped Walt Disney build his own backyard train and who himself remembers the Lilly Belle creates an very interesting situation as they reminiscence together about that phase of Walt Disney's life.  Additionally, Mrs. Disney shares with Broggie what her husband thought of Broggie's father Roger.  Being someone who has studied 20th century military history, I found the Fowler interview very interesting.  For me one of the most interesting moments was reading about his post-war position reorganizing the War Department.  As part of this charge, he helped oversee the retirement of the cavalry as a non-essential service.  As someone who has met a former cavalry veteran and visited a museum focused on the horse cavalry, I enjoyed uncovering the surprising connection. 

Walt's People: Volume 14 Talking Disney the Artists Who Knew Him is an essential volume for those who love Disney history (I feel like I have said this before).  The volume captures the words of those who helped create the magic.  Yes, you may read a story you have heard before, like Alice Davis' first meeting with Walt Disney.  But the majority of stories captured include recollections heard less, like why Davis left Disney employment.  Showcasing stories from over 80 years of Disney history including the animation, live-action and the Disney Parks, this volume likely has something that every Disney historian can appreciate.

Review Copy Provided by Theme Park Press

Between Books - Walt's People Volume 6

At a certain point you cannot ignore the impact that the Walt’s People series has in capturing and distributing Disney history in an accessible and portable form.  In the end, I can only continue to compliment editor Didier Ghez’s work and inspiration to countless amateur and professional Disney historians.

Walt’s People Volume 6: Talking Disney with the Artists Who Knew Him captures interviews with over 20 Disney artists and figures of interest.  The interviews range from a few pages to long form interviews of 25 plus pages.  The two categories, that I self-created, that really stood out to me in this volume are animation and the Disney family.  For animation, interviews and segments range from the golden age with Michael Barrier interviewing Carl Stalling about early Disney shorts and his musical contributions, Wilfred Jackson and other animators discussing features like Pinnochio, and the 1980s and story development with Steve Hulett.  The Disney family is very well represented with interviews including Lillian Disney, Roy O. Disney, Edna Disney, Sharon Disney, Diane Disney Miller and Ron Miller.  The volume literally includes thoughts from those closest to Walt Disney and saw him at home as a father and husband not just an entertainment giant.  Along with the interviews there are articles and profiles that are reprinted from earlier out of print animation magazines. 

I really enjoyed Walt’s People Volume 6: Talking Disney with the Artists Who Knew Him.  It may have been one of my favorite volumes as it contained a mix of new animation personalities to me while also offering voices, like Roy O. Disney, that I really wanted to hear from.  I found at times I was frustrated because I had to put the volume down or that the interview was over.  I found myself shopping for another volume even before I finished this collection.  And yet again, I can only strongly recommend these books to Disney history fans.  

Between Books - Walt's Apprentice

It is a harsh reality that Walt Disney passed away over 55 years ago. And sadly it means that many of Disney’s close colleagues and acquaintances have been taken from us. Dick Nunis represents one of those colleagues who worked with Disney over half a century ago, who we have heard others talk about but who had not yet captured his memories working at Disney until now.

Walt’s Apprentice: Keeping the Disney Dream Alive by Dick Nunis collects Nunis’ memories. Nunis outlines his youth including his college football career at the University of Southern California. After suffering a significant injury, Nunis moved into education, then training and development where Disney hired him as part of the Disneyland opening day training team. After a successful launch, Nunis found himself in operations where he oversaw lands within the park. His focus on capacity, efficiency, and maintaining Walt Disney’s standards led to his oversight of park operations. Working closely with Disney, Nunis would find himself added to projects as assigned. This would include participation in a World’s Fair, an Olympics, and eventually Disney’s move to the east coast with Walt Disney World. Nunis would successfully lead operations on both coasts until his retirement. Nunis then describes his post-Disney years as ones where he remained active and shared Walt Disney’s standards with others.

Nunis was assisted by a book team that created an outline for his recollections. Chapters tend to be topical and do not fully link to each other. The writing is clear, his team likely included editing skills, and he is easy to understand. Nunis has a reputation for being gruff. And his writing at times leans into this image with one section including phrases that support the story of the taskmaster general. The value is to see and hear these stories in Nunis’ voice. For example, he clearly was proud of his actions during the Yippie invasion of Disneyland. The text allows him to share his thoughts on this historical moment instead of letting others describe his actions for him. The pages allow him to tell the story in his voice and as he would shape it. The interesting piece to me however was how little was new. So many writers and colleagues have talked about the man that stories are not generally new information. Instead, they are about Nunis, by Nunis, and all of them are collected in one volume. Each chapter ends with a business lesson from Nunis, Disney, or other colleagues. I found these quotes somewhat unneeded as I read the volume less as a business book than a memoir. And some of these lessons seemed a little stretched to fit.

Walt’s Apprentice by Dick Nunis paints the former executive as a student of Walt Disney. And for some who see Disney as creative or affable may not take to the imagery. But we must also remember that Walt Disney was not a man who issued praise, worked hard, and demanded high standards. And while Disney may not have seen himself as a general like Nunis is willing to do, in many ways Nunis learned much from Disney. We must never forget that people are complex and do not always fit the stereotypes we place within our heads. The great benefit of Walt’s Apprentice is this book captures Nunis’ memories in Nunis’ words including his impressions of Walt Disney and himself.


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Walt's Windows - Disneyland U.S.A.

 

The “Disneyland U.S.A.” episode of the Disney series People & Places provides a glimpse of an early Disneyland Park, showing us the drastic differences and similarities to what we see today.  The documentary is one segment found on the Walt Disney Treasures – Disneyland – Secrets, Stories and Magic collectors tin DVD. 

This episode was released in December 1956, within 18 months of the opening of Walt’s park.  This film unlike the black and white opening day presentation, “Dateline: Disneyland” is presented in color and Cinemascope.  The film opens declaring of Disneyland that, “Its purpose is enlightenment.  Its product, happiness.”  And happy people, attired in fancy dresses and shirts with ties (not the shorts and tees of our day) is what we see as we tour around the park.

Main Street U.S.A.

·    The shape of Main Street U.S.A. seems familiar to the modern guest and we see the Main Street Vehicles shuttling families down the street to the Hub. 

·    The Omnibus and other familiar vehicles make their way down the street.  But unexpectedly we also see a western stage coach transporting guests. 

·    Additionally when we arrive at the Hub we do not see the familiar Partners Statue, which will not make its appearance for decades to come.

Frontierland

·    The program focuses a lot on this area, and it makes sense as Tony Baxter mentions in the accompanying commentary that at the time Frontierland was 1/3^rd of the park.  In one key way Frontierland looks very different. 

·    It is alive, really alive.  There are horses and mules everywhere giving you the impression that you were in the old west.  The number of animals compared with today is staggering as guests ride or are pulled by non-Audio-Animatronic animals! 

·    A big highlight is the town of Rainbow Ridge, which we can still see riding Big Thunder Mountain, and a tour through the extinct Mine Train through Nature’s Wonderland that was replaced by the current roller coaster.   

Adventureland

·    In Adventureland we find only one ride, but a ride we love in The Jungle Cruise. 

·    As they tour us down the rivers we see a lot of familiar sites including Schweitzer Falls and hippos with wiggly years.  But as we listen to the skipper spiel, in a costume that matches the stripped canopies of the boat, we hear a serious examination of sites, not jokes about the backside of water.

 

Tomorrowland

·    Like Adventureland, Tomorrowland appears sparse. 

·    You can see a lot of the Autopia track as there is little mature vegetation to frame the attraction.  It is humorous to watch well dressed men in ties and formal hats drive the Bob Gurr designed cars.  Cars whose modern equivalents are driven daily by young children. 

 

Fantasyland

·    Fantasyland is the most familiar to the modern guest of the 1956 version of the park.  Snow White, Mr. Toad, Peter Pan, Teacups, Casey Jr. Storybookland, Dumbo are all present as they tour through the area.  They just have different looks after rehabs of the past.   

·    The most obvious extinct attraction is the Skyway to Tommorrowland crossing over the park.  But I have to admit it would be fantastic if another extinct attraction ever returned to one of today’s Fantasylands, The Pirate Ship Restaurant.  That return could eliminate the rule to never eat in Fantasyland.     

“Disneyland U.S.A.” makes me nostalgic for that early Disneyland that I never experienced.  It is a very different place, an outing for people living in a more formal society.  It is clear that the guests are taking this as a day out with fancy dress.  I personally don’t think I have ever seen a guest in a tie, unless they were planning on eating at Club 33, within the parks.  One cannot help but feel good as you watch Walt Disney lead a circus parade down Main Street U.S.A., the architect enjoying his park, his stage, his playground.  Tony Baxter mentions that he has used this program with Walt Disney Imagineering new hires.  It is clear to see why as it shows a living, functioning park that brings joy to its guests.  It shows a snapshot of the past, where the park has been and how it pleased visitors. 

Walt's Windows - Kimball's Engines

People, its people that has always attracted me to history.  Honestly strong and unique personalities have always caught my interest.  So in baseball history, I have always been attracted to Ty Cobb not because I idolized him but because of his strikingly defined personality.   

Luckily as a Disney fan, there are plenty of unique personalities to study.  One of those men that I love to hear stories of and recount to others is Ward Kimball.  Kimball was a unique and intelligent man who seemed to have a number of diverse interests including trains and the society of tomorrow. 

Part of Ward Kimball’s personal backyard transportation collection were fire engines.  These items have been added to the collection of the Los Angeles County Fire Museum.  And their Spring 2012 Newsletter “Fire Warden” profiles Kimball and their place within their collection.  And best of all “Fire Warden” is available as a free downloable PDF that all can enjoy.  

There are two pieces in their collection that Disney fans should be excited about.  The first is Kimball’s 1888 Silsby Steam Pumper.  This piece shows the care that Kimball spent in preserving his collection.  This hand pulled 19^th century piece was repainted by Kimball, but only have he used his drawing skill to document its decorations.

1888 Silsby Steam Pumper: Originally Hand Drawn

The second is guaranteed to get any Disney fan excited.  They hold Kimball’s 1916 American LaFrance Fire Engine.  Kimball restored this piece for use by his jazz band, the Firehouse Five - Plus 2.  The Firehouse Five – Plus 2 would play from the hose bed.  The band made up of Disney staff members including another one of Walt’s Nine Old Men Frank Thomas and Harper Goff who created many of the early representations of the park.  The band was popular during the 1950s and had made many public appearances before the opening of Disneyland.  But Disneyland was a location where they preformed often playing on the back of the 1916 fire engine.  

1916 American LaFrance Fire Engine

I highly recommend that you download this issue of “Fire Warden” which takes us back to a day when Disney legends played jazz music for guests from the back of a privately owned fire engine.   

Between Books - The Disney Interviews: Volume I

 

 

The Walt’s People series has really created a gold standard for interview/oral history volumes on our Disney bookshelves.  These books create a benchmark that even experienced authors and interviews may struggle to maintain.  So, while the idea of an experienced interviewer moving audio interviews into a text format may seem like a no-brainer, sadly it can still go wrong. 

The Disney Interviews: Volume I by Lou Mongello transcribes interviews from the popular WDW Radio podcast into book format.  Each chapter consists of a brief introduction by the author about the context of the interview and some thoughts about the event.  The bulk of the chapter is a transcription of the interview.  Those included are a wide range of Disney celebrities including the well-known Julie Andrews, Alice Davis, Marty Sklar, and Richard Sherman.  But it also includes figures like Al Konetzni and Ralph Kent that may not be on every Disney fan’s radar.

This volume shows how difficult it can be to create a book, even when you have strong material.  In short, this book needs an editor desperately.  There are numerous text errors that create both reading discomfort and factual errors.  It makes one wonder if a simple transcription program was used to move the words into text, and then perhaps not carefully reviewed.  There are numerous grammatical errors.  But factual errors also frequent the book.  I was wondering who Dick Nunez was as he seemed to have had an impact on Tom Nabbe’s career.  I eventually figured out it was Dick Nunis.  But I was taken out of my experience as I pieced this puzzle together.  There are even factual errors in the introductions.  For example, in the Al Konetzni interview readers are directed to the full podcast episode 511, which is the Bill Sullivan interview. 

The Mongello interviews are comforting to hear.  They may be fancentric, but they really are like sitting down with an old friend when you hear them.  I really was looking forward to revisiting these interviews in a new way.  Sadly, instead I found The Disney Interviews: Volume I to be distracting and periodically frustrating to read.  I borrowed a Kindle edition and would really like to see this material edited and updated to provide what should be a fine reading experience. 

 

 

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